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Post by Atif Mirza on Jan 19, 2008 12:26:36 GMT 5
Sunita Jee! Waqee hum sub ko mahol theek rakhna chahiay magar mujhay jo dili taur per Mr brijinder kay fazool rawayyay say takleef huwi us ka madawa kia ho ga. Main nay naik niyyati aur khulay dil say unhaiN welcome kia aur dosti ka hath baRhaya aur soch keh shayed un sahib ko hamari yeh offer pasand aay gi magar kisss kathor pann ka muzahira huwa un ki taraf say uska kia hoga. Bahar aap logoN ka hukm hai keh un ki yeh hat-dharmi ko ignor kia jaay. Un ko unkay haal per choR diya jaay. Balkeh Shaheen sahib kay mashwaray kay mutabiq koi lift na karee jaay. Lijiay hum chuppppppppppppppppp...........................................
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Post by khalid on Jan 19, 2008 20:07:10 GMT 5
aadaab Khalid bhai jaan main aap ki baat se 100% sehmat hun ki jab ek insaan shayri urdu main kar sakta hai, ghar main punjabi bol sakta hai to jawaab English main kyuN deta hai.haan baat baat maiN ek aadh lafz English ka chal jaata hai jab ki hamaare Sarwar sahab ko vo baat bhi bahut buri lagti hai aur sahi baat bhi hai.Lekin bhai jaan jab ek insaan baar baar ek baat par ada hua ho aur usse apni har baat sahi lagti ho aur ham sab ka kehna bura lagta ho to uss insaan se ham apna maatha kyuN phod rahe hain urdu ka urdu main jawaab dena unn sab ke liye hi sahi hai jo iss baat ko adab ke lihaaz se samajhte hain.ab Brijinder ji to yeh bhi nahin maante ki shayri ka asal shayri hona tabhi mumkin hai jab vo behr main ho to aap bataao phir aap unn se kya manvaaoge?haan jis jis ko unn ki baat theek nahin lagti vo unhe ignore kare,ya phir Razi bhai unn ki post jab bhi English main ho usse delete kar diya kareN. aap ne dekha hoga ya nahin lekin main shaayad hi kabhi unn ki poetry par reply karti huN.Brijinder ji ki poetry ko agar main achha nahin to bura bhi kehna nahin chaahti kyunki vo unn ki apni soch hai.Har insaan ko haq hai ki vo jaise chaahe khud ko banaaye, hamen agar pasand nahin to ham khud kinaara kar leN. Mujhe sirf ek baat iss thread main galat lagi ki ek shakhs ko aap pehle welcome karte ho phir usse iss qadar majboor karte ho ki usse gussa aaye aur vo bhadke, uss par koii aa kar yeh bhi keh de ki kya bazm inn ke baghair nahin chal sakti.Bas yeh baat thi jis ke khilaaf maine kaha hai.Ummeed karti huN ab aap ko mujh se koii shikaayat nahin hogi.khush raheN.AH sunita behen yaqeenan aap sau feesad sahi ferma rahi haiN. yehi hona chaahiye jo aap ne fermaaya hai. ghalati her insaan sey hoti hai. lekin uska hal itneha nahiN miyaana ravi hai. maiN to arsey sey is formulay per chal raha hooN. lekin bezm ke halaat kharaab nahiN honey chaahiyeN. aur kisi bhi rukn ko bheRkaana, aur na zeba alfaaz istemaal kerna durust nahiN hai!
mujhey aap sey iktelaaf e raaey tha, shikaayat nahiN.
shukriya!
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Post by manu1979 on Jan 19, 2008 20:35:41 GMT 5
Sotay huay mehsoos kiyay shayad Meri nighaahoN say barsatay bosay Ki sharmaa kar ghany baaloN say Apnay chahray ko dhak liya usnay Brijinder jee kaise hai aap?? aap ko aaj pehli dafa padhaa magar aap ki is char line ki simple poetry par dil aa gaya mera. aap ka likhane kanadaaz kaabil-e-taariif hai. aur aap ki ghazal aur nazm ki soch jaan kar bahoot tasalli hui aur khushi bee, sach kahoo to aap ki yeh kaavish padh kar dil baag baag ho gaya sarkaar is dil fareb shayri par dil se mubaarakbaad qubool kare yunhee likhate rahe regards manu
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Post by brijinder on Jan 20, 2008 3:50:43 GMT 5
I will admit that it was my mistake to come back to this forum. But this is surely the last time.But before taking leave,I want to say few things very candidly which which I should have said long ago but my sense of decency always stopped me. 1.I have, on numerous occasions, equested to be excused for not writing prose in urdu as I am not fluent in prose and poetry happens to me.I have always said that I am NOT PROUD of it.At most of the sites,readers have been graceful enough to overlook this handicap of mine. It is like saying that if you are blind or a person with prosthetic legs,you have no right to be in the team attempting the scaling of Everest. It not only insults the challenged person but also conveys the shallowness and arrogance of the person giving judgment. Such challenged person have, indeed, scaled the Everest. 2.It is said that ignorance is bliss and I found it true here on this forum.I have also observed that ignorance is not only bliss but it is also arrogant, vicious, intolerant, snobbish and abusive. Few people have proved it here.Just because you have the arrogance and small-townish mentality which does not want to go on te adventure of ideas, does not mean that the world will stop for you.Wake up and study the comparative modern poetry of literatures of English and other major languages before passing such high-falutan judgements.Do not just remain self-congratulatory to one another.Free-verse poetry is a very valid form of poetry every where.Rather this is more dominant form of poetry these days.I love traditional poetry but also acknowledge that poetry does not end there.Your lack of study is not my fault. 3.Ask yourselves,who passed these stern and arrogant judgements,have done any intellectual,aesthetic or psychological journey?Ask yourselves what parameters you have to proclaim someone ARTIST?People like Mirza n Shaheen may be the masters putting words in perfect behr and wazan,but does that make them artists?This is merely a craft,if these judges can differentiate between the two.To me,being artist is not being a juggler. To be an artist means to go on endless journey of self-discovery,be an explorer of intellectual ideas,be an adventurer of different thought systems,to try to find not only the rigours of mind but also the wisdom of heart.Pampassion,tolerance,humanity,sense of humour,ability to laugh at oneself,experimentation,openness to new ideas- all this makes one an artist.Who amongus claim to be even possessing one of these quialities?None were visible whenever someone tried to pass judgements.This is more a group of grammarticians than a group of artists.Expand your intellectual,litrary and aesthetic horizons first and then try to sit on judgement.Little knowledge,as they say,is dangerous my friends.It may win great appreciatiosn from the people with te same limited exposure but you will be laughed at if you try this supercilious,”holier than thou “ attitude at any international gathering.Nietzsche rightly said,”Against ognorance,angels themselves tread in fear”.Scholarly debates on aesthetics are what you need NOT the childish belief in fairy tales.Grow up.I wished that by initiating dialogue on free-verse poetry,I will start an intellectually stimulating debate with peoplemfor and against,giving backing their arguments wirth scholarship,by citing the examples from the litratures of different languages and which will then expand into a debate on ART itself,going into the changing face of music,painting and what not.But what I got were few childish and petty minds who refuse to see the changes around them and insist that world around them should also conform to them.Friends,this is not how we grow-in arts,science or in relationship. 4.I am ready to go in an open scholarly debate about the modern urdu,hindi,Punjabi,English and possibly soe French and german(translated works).I am ready to enter into dialogue about aesthetics,about any major philosophical thought system or religious system,am ready for debate on various growing psychological systems,aboutvarious modern painting schools,about relativity,cosmology,evolution(at informed layman’s level).I am ready for all this on a SCHOLARLY level of debate but I have nothing to say to people who have not ventured beyond few books or few fixed ideas which they discuss at paan-bidi shop.Who among you who harshly pronounce judgments,is ready for that? 5.There should have been a moral outcry against openly abusive and intolerant stinking comments about religion by those two gentlemen.But what happened??Except Sunita sahebaWho herself is sikh,I suppose!) who came out with equally strong words against them.Razi sahib merely deleted that offensive mail.That is it!!!No comment.Who else was there,my friend? no one showed any courage of the conviction which we claim we have in our hearts!!!!To Khalid sahib,my crime for writing in English seems much bigger as he devoted almost the whole time on it.There were just few words about religious intolerance.And the focus from whole issue was very conveniently shifted to me.Some moral conviction is this,I must say. I have always been polite,graceful,humble and gentlemanly here but anyone with,little or no pretensions about art came and tried to kick me.But sirs and madams,I can not take it any longer.I will not allowanyone,who is without a sense of grace/humility/etiquettes or without any intellectual/aesthetic scholarship to trample me any longer.I have seen the beauties of the literature of various languages in so many colours that I will not let few blind people dictate/force me to say only black is beautiful. Stay in your well and be happy.I would rather be a nobody and the poorest BUT with the wings to fly in the sky than be a KING of the frogs of a well.Goodbye and stay well. P.S. I could not write all this in urdu prose If any of you who only harsly judges have the caliber then translate it for the benfit of Shaheens and Ateefs of the forum who do not seem much educated and are mere foul-mouthed slumlords.
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zaamin
ibtidaai rukn
Posts: 69
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Post by zaamin on Jan 20, 2008 4:30:02 GMT 5
aaj is post ko dekhane ka ittefaaq huwaa,to dil bahut dukhii huwaa;eik ma'amoolii si baat ko lekaar itna tazaad kyon barpa kar liya jaata hai,yahaan;aur asl maqsad,jo ki eik doosre ki tehreeron ko parhna aur un pe tabsara karna hota hai[aur ham sabh ko haqq hai ki ham kisii bhii tehreer ko chaahen to parhen ya na parhen aur us pe apni aaraa likhen ya na likhen]ko choorh kar jhat-pat ek doosre per personal attack karne per utar aate hain;yeh to waajih hai,ki koii bhii takraar yak-tarfa nahiin ho sakta,aur aksar donon ya jitni bhii parties hon,un sab ka role hota hai behs ko bevajah barhaane ka;lekin is thread men mujhe to at least aisa kuch nahiin mila,jis se brijinder saahib ne is fuzool ki behs ko chheRhne ya baRhaane ki koshish ki ho;mohtaram mirza saahib ka brijinder saahib ko welcome karna to sahii thaa,lekin baar baar usii baat ko duhraana kisi tarah bhii sahii nahiin thaa[nadanistan hi sahii,ek tarah se yeh uksaana tassawur kiya ja sakta hai];aur baar baar brijinder sahib ke english likhne pe tabsara karna bhii koyii sahii baat nahin,jab ki voh clear kar chuke hain,ki vo aisa hi karenge( go ki meri bhii zaati raaye yahii hai,ki agar in forums men ham urdu ya mere jaisi panjabiized /anglicized urdu hi use ki jaaye,lekin ham kisii ko majboor nahiin kar sakte,ki vo aisa hi karen,especially jab ki yeh forum ke rules main nahin hai ki sirf aur sirf urdu hi likhii jaaye ,ya ki angrezii na likhii jaaye];shaaheen saaahib ka khat kyonkih main ne nahiin paRhaa ,is liye us pe koyii tabsara karna mere liye naa-munaasib hoga;lekin us khat pe sunita ji ko bhii likhnaa parhaa [jab ki ham sabh un ke tahammul aur bardaasht ke mijaaz se waaqif hain],to zaroor hi koyii nagawaar baat hogi;jab koyii bhii shakhs kisi ke saath uski association[mazhabi ho ya koii doosri] ko joRh kar baat karta hai,to eik taur us group ko bhii haqiir nazar se dekhata hai,aur mere khayaal men yeh hamaare sabh ke andar waste sterotypes ka nateeza hai,aur aisi baaton ko rokne ke liye forum ki zimmedaari banti hi ,ki is baare men waajih aur hatma policy apnaaye; umiid hai,ki ham sab kuch bhool kar phir se is mehfil ko khuloos aur bhaii-chaargii ka aaina banaange.god-willing!
mukhlis
zaamin
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zaamin
ibtidaai rukn
Posts: 69
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Post by zaamin on Jan 20, 2008 4:58:47 GMT 5
lagta hai,kih jab main apna khat likh rahaa thaa,tabh hi brijinder saahib bhii apna khat likh rahe the;yeh khat parhne ka ittefaaq apna khat likhne ke baad huwaa;meri un se guzaarish hogi ki mehfil ko na chhoren;ek doosre ki ghaltiyon ko dar-ghuzar karna hi munaasib hai;aur ki unki poetry ke bhii bahut se paristaar mauzood hain
zaamin
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