Shaheen
rukn
From City of Eagles
Posts: 161
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Post by Shaheen on Oct 17, 2007 15:55:11 GMT 5
Shukar aay Sardar jee tussi mann gai o! naee te tussi donon kafi aggay tur gaay so! Khair Tussi aye te mannya keh free verse di dal hallay naee galni. Rabb Rakha! Meray wollon iss behs da ikhtitam ho raya aay. Ess taun baad koi reply naee hona chahida hai. (Jumla del kar diya gaya hai - done by Shaheen)
Khush rahain
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Post by Sukhanwar on Oct 18, 2007 11:15:42 GMT 5
main nay tamaam doston ki araa parhi hain mera khyaal hy is main talkhi nahin aani chaahiay nasri nazm k baaray main meri apni raay bhi yehi hy k main isay poetry tasleem nahin karta jahan atk is baat ka taaluk hy k kon kon sy mareoof shairon ny nasri nazm kahi to janab is ko bhi sanad nahin kaha jaa sakta ..jin eham shairon nay nasri nazm kahi hy ka adab mnain jo bhi maqaam hay wo un ki paband shairy k hawalay say hay na k nasri nazm k hawalay say yeh aik ilmi behas hy is main talkhi payda na kijiay mujhay shaheen sahib ka yeh andaz acha nahin laga jis main unhon ny brijinder sahib say kaha hy k agar ab koi reply aaya to bad words istamaal kiay jaain gay muhabat ko farogh dijiay aur adab ki baat adab k daairay main hi kijiay thanx tazi
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Post by Atif Mirza on Oct 18, 2007 15:51:38 GMT 5
Razi Bhai Thanx for itruding and interfaring.
Agarcheh yeh behs kabhi khatm honay wali nahiN thi, laikin tawana chal rahi thi, Waqiee Shaheen sahib ko iss tarah kay alfaz iste'mal nahiN karnay chahiyaN.
Mahnama "Sukhanwar" Karachi main kissi nay Nasri Nazm ko Adab ki teesri sinf qarar denay ka mutaliba kia aur issay "Nasm" ka naam bhi day dala. Ab aap khud jantay hain keh InsaanoN maiN teesri sinf ka kia muqam hai?
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Post by Rafi Tabasum on Oct 19, 2007 0:13:51 GMT 5
maiN sabhi ahbaab say aik dafa phir guzarish karooN ga keh sehatmandana behs maiN maiN hissa zaroor laiN magar kisi ki zaat ko tanqeed ka neshana na banaiN
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maya
rukn
Posts: 143
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Post by maya on Oct 19, 2007 0:37:04 GMT 5
Salam meray pas kahany ko aur kuch na sahi mgr chand lafz zaroor hain jo ap sab kay paesh e khidmat hain.yea khas tour per es thread kay leya likhay gay hain.Umeed hay laffz o ma'ani sy taluq rakhnay walay es ko samjh jaien gay.wo bhi samjh jaien gay jin kay leya harf o lafz ki hurmat ka auqdda waa ho chuka aur wo bhi kay jo lafzoun ki talsah main tu hain mgr unki talsah uss darjjay per nahi jo Ruh ki Gahraioun sy nikalti hay.yea lafz kesi ilmi bahes kay mutahamil har giz nahi.bohat aajzi kay sath kuch ehsasaat hian.
LAFZ
Yea harf o lafz ka rishta yea lafz aur ma'ni ka rishta serf Zarkheazi main panpta hay harff lafzOun main dhalltay haiN phir lafzoun pay Darr ma'ni kay khultay hain mgr yea lazim hay kay matti main ho wussat aasman jaisy jo apNi Zaat kay dairay main Muqayeadd hay Harf o lafz sy qurbat usko namm nahi krti Harf o lafz sy qurbat Uskay banjjar honay ka bhaed auroun pay Khool dati hay...
waslam fatimah
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Post by brijinder on Oct 19, 2007 1:02:09 GMT 5
I started this thread with an intention of having a very stimulating and though-provoking debate.I had assimilated few fine pieces of free-verse poetry in urdu,by famous poets,to bolster my point of view.I was hoping that ,in the true fashion of debate, those not subscribing to my point of view will come up with scholarly and intellectually incisive counterpoints,and will back it up with equally illuminating example,like I was trying to do. But I was shocked by the agressive and infantile response I got.It suddenly started looking like this site has been hijacked by few persons who did not tolerate PLURALITY OF THOUGHT. Any difference of opinion is just being snubbed by verbal abuse,personal insults and openly mockery of,what is understood in any intelligent forum as,debate.If they can not make their point by the intensity of their intellectual clarity,they make it up by being boorish,uncivil and vicious. This is,to me,a talibanisation ofa wonderful site.There seemed to be no moderator to rein in firmly,what to me seemed like,open hooliganism.This forum should be a place of scholars and artists,trying to see from each others' perpective and grow in the process. Sirs,I am sorry to say that while I was being insulted,mocked and opnely threatened of verbal abuse,no one came to make the amends.This insenstivity at a site where we,pretend to be talking about "adab" but do little to preserve it,has pained me deeply.It was only my p.ms. to razi saheb and Tabssum saehb that they stepped in.I have great respect for both of you,sirs,but it was disappointing. I request the administrators and the moderators to take steps before it is too late,before it drives away the mature memebers. Regards brijinder
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maya
rukn
Posts: 143
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Post by maya on Oct 19, 2007 10:30:57 GMT 5
Salam
yea p.m tha jo main nay briginder jee ko likha tha.uska kuch portion ap sab ehbab kay parhnay k leya copy kr rahy hun.
"Briginde jee
ap shaid ess baat per yaqeen na karin mgr apkay chalay gay thread ko parh kr ankoun main aansu aa gay.apnay ehsasaat likhna chahaoun tu eskay leya bohat waqt darkar hay jo fil waqt dasteyaab nahi.jahan itnay saray log apki baat ko ni samjh skay wahan ap yea zaroor yad rakheya ga k aap sy experience aur knowledge main bohat kam aik banday na apka sath dea tha.aur wo main hun..... khabi meray pas kahnay ko bohat kuch hota hay lakin main pabband shaeri krnay lagoun tu sab gumm ho jata hay.bahar hal main apna khaiail kesi qemat per zaya nai kr sakti.yahi baat mujay apkay opinion kay bohat qareeb kr dati hay .yea baat muj per guzarti hay esleya eskay sath meray ehsasaat be wabastta hain. Khuda apkay qalam ko aur quwat ata krya.mujay apkay baat kahnnay ka expression bohat acha lgta hay.khuda nay apko yea ability di hay k ap lafz kay ma'ni jan sakain.es per uskay shukar guzzar rahheya. Fatimah "
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Shaheen
rukn
From City of Eagles
Posts: 161
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Post by Shaheen on Oct 19, 2007 15:30:40 GMT 5
Dosto! Salam! Sub say pehlay to sakht maazrat keh meray alfaaz say kafi doston ka dil dukha. Mera chandan yeh matlab nahin tha bahar hal main phir bhi sharminda hoon. Aik baar phir maazrat. Insha Allah aienda aisa nahin ho ga. Main to khud aik aajiz sa banda hoon najanay kaisay yeh gustakhi kar baitha. Magar brijindar jee aap bhi to aik baat per arr gaay thay. Atif sahib ne to likha bhi tha keh:-
"Aap ka kaha sar aankhon per! Agar aap itnay hi musir haiN free verse likhnay per tau zaroor likhaiN agar kisi zamanay maiN isay pazeeraiee mili tau aap ka naam bhi aay ga pioneers maiN. Agar meray jaisay logoN nay issay panapnay na diya tau aap apnay lieay Nasr ka medan select kar rakhaiN. Shukriya aur best wishes."
Razi Sahib wrote "jahan atk is baat ka taaluk hy k kon kon sy mareoof shairon ny nasri nazm kahi to janab is ko bhi sanad nahin kaha jaa sakta ..jin eham shairon nay nasri nazm kahi hy ka adab mnain jo bhi maqaam hay wo un ki paband shairy k hawalay say hay na k nasri nazm k hawalay say "
Aap ka rawayya bhi patther peh lakeer ki tarah raha.Mind na karian tau aik baat manain "Jaisa des wesa bhais". Aap bhi apna dil bara karain. Shukria
Fatimah Jee aap nasr lkha karain koi aap say nasr nagar ka muqaam nahin chheenta.
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Post by Atif Mirza on Oct 19, 2007 16:43:45 GMT 5
Brijinder Jee! Dil maila karnay wali koi baat nahiN, aur na hi iss baat ka yahaN per ehtimam hai. ThoRi si bad mazgi huwi janay dijeay. Aur ab tau Shaheen Sahib nay maazrat bhi kar li hai. Kissi ka maqsad doran-e-behs kissi ki dil aazari nahiN hota. Phir bhi agar koi chhoti moti talkhi ho jaay tau achhay log apna dil bara rakhtay haiN. Ab aap ka bhi farz banta hai keh Shaheen Sahib ki baat ka jawab daiN. Aur mujhay nahiN lagta keh Shaheen sahib nay aisi koi baat aap say direct ki ho. Such poochaiN tau bad words ka notice maiN nay bhi liya kiyoon-keh yeh mairay liay bhi ho saktay thay agar maiN uss kay baad iss thread main kuch likhta. Laikin main seekh paa nahiN huwa. Main aik baar aap say yeh arz kar chuka tha keh aap ki marzi hai. Main Nasri sha'eri say mutmain nahiN hooN. Bahar mera abhi bhi yehi kehna hai keh aap jo chahaiN karaiN. Nasr ka maidan aap kay liyay khula hai! Fatimah G! Aap nay likha:- "khabi meray pas kahnay ko bohat kuch hota hay lakin main pabband shaeri krnay lagoun tu sab gumm ho jata hay.bahar hal main apna khaiail kesi qemat per zaya nai kr sakti." Tau meri behn! Aapko kiss nay majboor kia hai keh aap apna khayal zaya karain. Aap say guzarish hai keh Nasr main try karaiN aur uss maiN apna naam banaaiN. Nasr nigaroN ki kami kafi ziyada ho gayee hai. Doosri baat yeh keh, Aap ko apna khayal nasr main likhnay say kiss nay roka hai ya sha'eri main kehnay per kiss nay majboor kia hai. Misal k taur per main "Laikin" per likhna chahta tha. Sha'eri main issay nibha nahiN sak tau apni pehli nasr likh dali. Namoonay kay liyay mulahiza ho: - (Plz click on this link and read "Laikin") sukhanwar.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=mazameenafsanaycolumn&action=display&thread=1190395678Aap parhnay kay baad farmaiyeay ga keh kia yeh tareeqa achha nahiN. Kia aap Kalima, Namaz waghaira kay baghair Muslim kehla sakta haiN..........? NahiN! Tau issi tarah wazn, behr kay baghair aap sha'er kehlwanay ki haqdar bhi nahin. Allah aap ka hami-o-nasir ho.
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maya
rukn
Posts: 143
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Post by maya on Oct 19, 2007 20:40:05 GMT 5
Fatimah G! Aap nay likha:- "khabi meray pas kahnay ko bohat kuch hota hay lakin main pabband shaeri krnay lagoun tu sab gumm ho jata hay.bahar hal main apna khaiail kesi qemat per zaya nai kr sakti." Tau meri behn! Aapko kiss nay majboor kia hai keh aap apna khayal zaya karain. Aap say guzarish hai keh Nasr main try karaiN aur uss maiN apna naam banaaiN. Nasr nigaroN ki kami kafi ziyada ho gayee hai. Doosri baat yeh keh, Aap ko apna khayal nasr main likhnay say kiss nay roka hai ya sha'eri main kehnay per kiss nay majboor kia hai. Misal k taur per main "Laikin" per likhna chahta tha. Sha'eri main issay nibha nahiN sak tau apni pehli nasr likh dali. Kia aap Kalima, Namaz waghaira kay baghair Muslim kehla sakta haiN..........? NahiN! Tau issi tarah wazn, behr kay baghair aap sha'er kehlwanay ki haqdar bhi nahin. Allah aap ka hami-o-nasir ho. Atif Mirza Sahib Salam Ho skta hay ap es baat sy muttafiq na hun mgr meri soch yea hay kay insan ka koi takhleeqi kam jo zahoor mai aa jata hay, Us ka kuch hesa tu un taleemat per mushtamil ho sakta hay jo us nay learn ki hun, magr zeada tar hessa us Takleeqi amal ka Nateeja hOta hay jo Qudrat insan kay andar rakh dati hay.harf aur lafz kay Medaan mai kesi kay andar Kea Takhleeq panap rahy hay,uski qemat kea hay aur wo kal kea Muqaam pay gy? es ka faisla waqt krta hay. Nasri Nazam ki estlha galat hay yea darustt?bohat mumkin hay aur kuch arsay bad khuda es rastay per meray qadam jama day aur lafzoun per itni garift ata kr day k main en swaloun kay jawab Us level per day sakoun jo denay chaheyaien. Magr aaj shayri mai kesi naye istelha ya kesi naye hayyeat ki baat per hansnnay waloun kay sath mai es leya shamil nahi ho sakti, kay aisi bohat si bataien mazi main guzar chuki hain jis kay baray main sun ker aik generation nay tamaskahar kea,mazaaq uraya mgr bad kay anay walay logoun nay usko na serf tasleem kea balkay qabool be kea. Jahan tak apki yea baat kay koi kalima aur namaz kay bagair musliman nahi kahla sakta.tu guzarish hay kay kalima ur namaz kay sath be kuch insan muslim ni hotay....jaisay muslim hona zaat kay jhukao kay bagair mumikn nahi esi trh Khaial aur ehsaas ki qemat ada keya bena khali lafz shayri nahi ban sktay. jahan tak zikar hay apki dosri baat ka tu mai yea tasleem krti hun jo Sahyer kahlwnay ka haq mangnay lag jay wo khbi shayerr nahi hota. chand lafz apki khidmat main peash hain umeed hay yea mera bayaan ap per mazeed wazah kr dain gay. Mai Koi Shayerr nahi mai koi shayerr nahi na daawa hay Sukhan ashnai ka meray aur lafzoun kay darmyan bas yahi aik Nisbatt hay kay raggoun main munjammid zindgy jab khabi Dard angaez lamhoun ki hararatt sy peghalti hay tu lafzoun mai dhalti hay... tu lafzoun mai dhalti hay... Es umeed kay sath k kay briginder jee ka es maozu per cahalaya gea yea thread, na serf hamaray khaial kay izhar ka zareya ho gy balkay soch ki nayi jahattain b muha'eyya karay ga. waslam Fatimah
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Post by brijinder on Oct 23, 2007 0:58:40 GMT 5
I am not the one to pardon anyone.Whosoever repents should confront his own conscience.But to say"itni si baat"is to trivilze the issue.Please do not laugh it away.Few memebers had simply forgotten their core manners and had gone much beyond that. Sirs,my insistence is NOT denying the beauty and importance of traditional poetry,if you read me carefully.But I still insists for the freedom of exploration and experimentation.I back up my arguments by illuminating examples of the poems of distinguished poets.But sadly when others can not come up with some scholarly reply and can not back it up with examples,they make it up by becoming personal and crude.It seems like literature on few sites have been hijacked by the pedestrian thought and the hecklers.That is neither this ADAB(litrature)nor that ADAB(respect) in any case.I wrote:
JahaazoN say liptanaiN ko baitaab thay meray samaNdar Aur kishtiaN kaghaz ki bahataa rahaa zamana
Fatimah saheba has succinctly replied about being muslim without nazaz etc.My reply is same.The same difference is between a crafts man and an artist.The example of "third sinf"might have raised few laughs from some fixed minds but it was not a very intelligent and literary reply,sir.This is a serious ands cholarly debate,plese donot just defend instinctively but try to see with others' eyes as well. What I am saying is that Faiz,Faraaz,parvin,Kaifi etc.were and are NOT merely craftsmen of a particular style BUT were artists in true sense.An artist,by nature,is an explorer and not just a stickler to the system-social,litrary whatsoever.The artist donot belong to the fixed mindset but try to carve new paths.If almost all the modern poets also experimented in free verse,then it becomes a serious question to be asked.WHY?The answer will come only if we listen to the artists in us andNOT the craftsmen in us. I am sure that most of you have studied the modern poetry in other languages,english,punjabi ets as well.Walt Whitman,Sylvia plath and numerous others have written almost whoole of their poetry in this format and are considered the great poets.In fact,metric,rhymic poetry has been replaced by the free verse poetry in all other languages.But again ,sirs,this is not to say that traditional poetry is not beautiful.It is only to say that our love for rose should not make us prejudiced towards other flowers. And Fatimah saheba,thanks a lot for being here with me and understanding what i am trying to say. Regards brijinder
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Post by Atif Mirza on Oct 23, 2007 15:55:34 GMT 5
Brijinder Jee jo main nay kehna tha keh liya yahaN intelect or non intelect ki baat nahiN. Abb hum apnay phichli baataiN repeat kar rahay haiN. Lihaza! Aap khush rahaiN.
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Post by khalid on Oct 24, 2007 23:24:46 GMT 5
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Post by khalid on Oct 24, 2007 23:43:16 GMT 5
Shukar aay Sardar jee tussi mann gai o! naee te tussi donon kafi aggay tur gaay so! Khair Tussi aye te mannya keh free verse di dal hallay naee galni. Rabb Rakha! Meray wollon iss behs da ikhtitam ho raya aay. Ess taun baad koi reply naee hona chahida hai. (Jumla del kar diya gaya hai - done by Shaheen) Khush rahain kam karan da saarey ik tareeka a nazm dee is aazaadi tey jag pitta a raat nuN din te din nuN raat a kendey ney ki kerye pha ji da kaaN ee chitta a
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Post by Atif Mirza on Oct 25, 2007 0:57:22 GMT 5
Tussi vi theek kehnday ouooo khalid sahab! Mannu vi a gall changi laggi ouooo! Shaheen Sahab Tuhadi vi baRi meherbani keh tussi aye boli likhkhi te Khalid Sahab aye qataa kehen te majboor howay ouooo.
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